DAVID WHITMER,
DESCENDANT TALK,
NOVEMBER 18, 1993
After 2.5 years we taught 112 people and
baptized 112. We never even taught a lesson to anybody except they got
baptized. I mean, we even hit the number one atheist in Tacoma who was a 19
year old kid that had an IQ of over 200.
When he was 14 he had challenged every major religion to a big debate.
He challenged the Catholics, Baptists and they would meet in a large hall that
seated
300 or 400 people. He had won every
debate but he couldn't get any Mormons to come and debate. The full-time missionaries would come
and teach him but they wouldn't discuss Adam-God theory, or polygamy, and all
that. He had slipped in to one of our baptisms where we were baptizing a
couple, and he had heard there was going to be a baptism and he wanted to see
what it was like. Right after the baptism he slips out the door. Arly and I
were getting dressed and we usually baptize one or the other and then we would
switch on the confirmation.When I go to confirm them I can't find Arly, so I
confirm them both and we get all through and I go out into the parking lot and
there is Arly. He had slipped out and
the Spirit had said go get him. So Arly had headed him off and he said
"What I want to do is learn about the Adam-God theory, polygamy, and all
that stuff". Arly said, "We
will teach you anything you want to know." And he said "OK, come over
to my house Thursday night” So starting Thursday night on we taught him. Arly
took my watch, I had one with the hand on it, going around. He took my watch
and he says, "John is there any elements in that watch that you couldn’t
find out here in the earth?” John
says "No". Arly says, "What are the chances of all them coming
together and actually working?” And John goes, he figures it all out,
"Really there is no chance of
that happening." Arly then says,
"someone had to make it, huh?” "OK, I finally believe there is a God."
There is no way I can get passed that one. Then with tears in his eyes John
says, "Now teach me about God." He ended up joining the Church and
then he went on a mission, then he came to BYU and I haven't heard much from
him since.
Arly would head off people all over town. I learned on that fifth stake
mission how you do it by the Spirit. If you don't have revelation you have to
knock on every door. If you have the Spirit you just pass up the ones that
aren't ready even if they make an appointment. He is the one that opened the
door on it. So when I moved back from Tacoma up to Salt Lake here the first
week I went to church as a Seventy they said "Our group instructor isn't
here. Here is the lesson manual would you mind teaching us lesson number such
and such?" I stood up first time in the ward and taught the lesson and
after that they set me apart as the Seventy instructor. The second week the
High Priest group instructor wasn't there and they asked if they could come in.
And about three years later they made me a High Priest and I still teach in all
the Seventies and High Priests and I was there as years teaching them. Two and
a half years working in the River Jordan temple in the baptistery every
Wednesday.
I had a goal that took me fifteen years to reach. I wanted to be able to
speak to the Church of the Firstborn and the resurrected beings. Even going on
a mission I needed personal revelation of some kind that said, "Yes, I
want you to go on a mission, and here is where I want you to go, this is what I
want you to do". Rather than just assume I am supposed to be going where
the Church told me to go based on there was an opening that happened to be
there. I wanted to be more. I went for fifteen years fasting, praying filling
every position that I had, doing everything I could by the Spirit until I
started receiving my first visions and revelations. That would have been eight
years ago now.
My first vision I had Jesus taking me by the hand and we were sailing
over, what turned out to be, most of the state of Utah. We were at an incline
about like this. We are about two or three hundred feet in the air and He is
showing me all the destruction that is going to happen to Utah. He kept saying,
"I will clean my house first". My house meaning those that are the
closest, those that have the most, will be where I clean first. There was a
woman climbing up over rubble. She was all beat up, she had dried blood on her,
scabs, everything was a mess on her. She was digging thru rubble like it was
her home. She was saying, "Oh God, I've lost everything, I've lost
everything", and just a wailing. And Jesus said, "No, you've lost
everything that you thought would save you. Unless all of you turn your hearts
to me, and come to me, this is what's going to happen to you." I don't know how long this vision took but
when it finished I was sitting on the end of my bed. I went downstairs and walked
around for about 45 minutes. I came back up and just sat on the edge of the bed
and was just starting to lean back onto the pillow when the vision started again.
It was exactly the same thing, exactly, same words, everything perfect. When I
got thru I was sitting on the edge of the bed again so I went down and walked
around for a little over an hour. I went back up and was just starting to sit
on the edge of the bed when it started for the third time. After the first one I remember
thinking, when my wife wakes up in the morning I am going to tell her we've got
to move away from Salt Lake. After the second one we've got to move away from
the Wasatch front and after the third one we've got to move out of Utah because
then I remember seeing Logan, St. George, Vernal, and everyplace in Utah. I
remember seeing headlines, like news headlines, saying, "Look what has
happened to Utah. These were God-fearing, family-oriented, upright, clean
living people. If that can happen in Utah what is going to happen to the rest
of us?" I was seeing newscasters saying the same type of thing.
Question: Was that an earthquake
type of thing, or nuclear?
Answer: There wasn't much standing.
I remember seeing the temple but it was like the temple was sticking out of
some water. I could only see the top spires of the temple. The rubble was mostly upon the benches but
it looked like there was a lot of water here.
Since then I have found out that there is a 200-300 foot shelf of salt
underneath the whole Salt Lake valley. A
geologist at the University of Utah was telling me that that salt in the last 20
years has been dissolved and most of it is gone now and it is just a hollow
cavern down there. When they drill they can hit an area of 300 feet thick with
nothing in it, it is just empty. So it is like the earthquake shakes and this
falls down and then the water from the Great salt Lake rushes in. The Indians I
talk to say that in their prophesies it is something like the salt woman, they
call this the salt woman and the salt woman is going to raise up and clean the
valley. But all I can tell you is what I saw which was a lot of destruction and
when this woman says, "I've lost everything", all He answered was,
"You've lost everything you thought would save you."
I don't think I've told you this but I saw a couple of visions where I
could see me standing on a corner in Salt Lake and I'm telling people that now
is the time to repent, now is the time to get your life in order. I remember a
guy coming up with a threepiece suit on and a briefcase and he asks if he can
go home and tell his family about this? And I say, "Yes." I see
myself there a few days later saying the same things and another guy in a
threepiece suit and a briefcase comes up and asks if he can go home and warn
his family and I answer, "No, there isn't time." I can see myself
turn and like I was heading west and when I got somewhere out on the desert, I
could see a lot of people behind me and a lot of people out in front of me, all
traveling, but I felt like a big whoosh behind me. It was just like something
brushed the back of my head, and the back of my shoulders and my pants and the
heels just went whoosh like something fell down. I turned around and it was
like I was looking through glass or plastic. Everything was swirling. There
were people, cars, trees, and houses swirling up in the air and they had a
horrified look on their face. That's when my wife says, "We want to be in
front of you." (We moved right out to Vancouver, WA).
I had an angel come and say, "You're now ready to be rebaptized in
preparation to receiving further ordinances".
Question: Did the angel give a
name?
Answer: He eventually did but
he didn't when I first met him. I went and told my Bishop, told my Stake
President, told the first councilor in my stake Presidency who lived in my
ward, and I told them all everything that was happening. I thought that they
would line me up an appointment at the temple or something to go get baptized. It
was stuff I didn't know much about, the ordinances for rebaptism. I asked the
angel, "What is this about? What do I need to do?" "I want you
to go up to the Church archives and get a copy of David Whitmer, the witness,
his patriarchal blessing. The next day I went up and requested a copy and they
punched in the computer and said, "There is none." So that night this
angel shows up again and says, "I want you to go up and get ·a copy of
David Whitmer's blessing". I say there isn't one and he says, "Yes,
there is". I went up again and they had a supervisor gal there that kept
putting it in the computer and saying, "There isn't one." So I went
home and the next night here he comes again. I am thinking that this guy is a
broken record. There is one or there isn't. I wasn't arguing with him but I
just said, "They tell me there isn't one. The angel says, ''There_ is one.''
''OK, I'll go.'' I go up and just make another request and they say,
"There isn't one." I said, "Do you have somebody that knows why
there wouldn't be one?" There is a guy that has worked here for 45 years. He
looked like he was 80 years old. He kinda looked like Joseph Fielding smith. He
looked like he had worked in the archives all his life. He tried the computer
also and then said he would look in the actual stacks. He came back out and
said, "Yea, there is one back there but it's a file that's got all three
edges taped together with red tape and red tape across the front. Written on the
red tape across the front is "Do not open except in the presence of the First
Presidency." The old man says, "The only way you can get a copy is by
requesting it with this form." He helped me till out the form. I put down
that he is an ancestor and I want a copy to put in my book of remembrance. He
says, "That is a valid reason." Two weeks later I get a letter from
Dean Larson, the general authority in charge of historical department of the
church. After deliberation, the First Presidency has denied your request for a
copy of David Whitmer's patriarchal blessing. The next night the angel comes back.
I said, "I am sorry I could not get a copy of the blessing." The
angel said, "I just wanted you to know there was one." I said,
"I· believe that there is one". The angel then said, "I am going
to tell you who I am now. I am David Whitmer and Joseph Smith gave me that
blessing. I am now going to tell you what was in that blessing." A lot· of
the same stuff that he told me (he shifts directions here for a while)
Now let me jump back; When I was 2.5 years old my mother ran over me in
a car. They rushed me over to the Sanford (?) clinic. I had 68 bones broken and
I swelled up and they had to cut my clothes off. The doctor said he wouldn't
make it to Phoenix and we can't save him here so just take him home because he
wouldn't make it thru the night. My grandfather, the one who grew up with
Spencer Kimball, (more background about his grandfather). My grandfather-had a
little boy that drowned. The little
boy had been stuck in a head gate of an irrigation ditch for 4 hours. The
family members couldn't find him and they finally went and got granddad. He
jumped off the tractor and knelt down and he could see in a vision right where
the kid was. He ran over and jumped a few fences and ran right up to this headgate
and jumped in and the water was up to his chest. Even though the water was
muddy, granddad could see where the boy's hand was because of the vision that
was shown to him. He pulled him out, put his left hand on his head and his
right arm to the square and commanded the Lord to make him live. Water shot out
of his mouth about fifteen feet straight in the air. Every year on his birthday
he gives granddad a book or a little present. My grandmother passed away one
day and the relief society had taken her over to the church house to get ready
for burial. Granddad had come home and found out she had died. He said, "No
she hasn't, she has a family to raise." He went to the church, took her
hand with his left, raised his right arm to the square and commanded her to
rise, and she did. He dragged her all the way home (sounds rougher than it was)
and she had to take the stitches out when she got home. She still had the scars
from where they had sewn up her lips and eyes. They had five more kids after
this. I am giving you an idea what my grandfather was like.
So he gave me a blessing when I was 2.5 years old and was ran over. Everybody
knew that I was going to die, but he told me I wasn't so I didn't. I still have
a big scar on my leg that reminds me of it. When I was 19 Spencer Kimball gave
me a blessing and the blessing really scared me. I think I was on my fifth
stake mission in Tacoma when my grandfather passed away in Arizona. He passed
away for about 17 minutes. He had had a heart attack and the paramedics had
rushed him to the hospital and they were preparing an operating room for him. He
was all hooked up to the machines and had left him alone in a dark room and
when they came back the machines showed he was dead flat for 17 minutes. Grandfather
said he had met the Lord and had talked the Lord into letting him come back. He
wanted all of his posterity to come down and hear his testimony. The whole
family went to Arizona. I would have been about 30 years old. (I could have
been anywhere from 28 to 32). Grandfather told everyone how he had met the
Lord, what it was like, and how long he knew his wife would still be here. Grandfather
told everyone that he had come back to bear his testimony that the Lord lives
and has been resurrected, etc. That afternoon he came and took me by the hand
and took me out around the house where there are no windows on one side and
where a trampoline is, which they leaned on. Grandfather said, "The only
reason I came back is to repeat a blessing to you. The Lord told me to repeat a
blessing to you. Do you remember the blessing I gave you when you got ran over?"
I said, "I remember that you gave me a blessing but I don't know what was
in it." He said, "No one has told you what was in it?" I said,
"No." When he started talking about the third word I knew it was,
word for word, the same blessing that Spencer Kimball had given me in his
office when I was nineteen. It had some of the same stuff in it that David
Whitmer's patriarchal blessing had that he was given by Joseph Smith. The one
that is sealed at the archives that can't be opened except the First Presidency
is there. Every time I’ve heard the blessing it scared me. It is mainly dealing
with family though. From the church standpoint it deals with family. I have a
mission with my family.
(1985) The Lord took me on those three trips of destruction, preaching
on the corner, and then my two grandfathers appeared to me. They had both died
since then. They appeared to me in my bedroom. My dad's father and my mother's
father. My mother's father didn't say anything but he would nod his head
whenever my other grandfather would talk.
(background) Both grandfathers served full-time missions, both married
in the temple, both had four sons and four daughters each, all their sons and
half the daughters of each served full-time missions, they all married in the
temple and served in bishoprics and stake presidencies. Three sons are stake
patriarchs now. They are both real straight arrow type families, real solid. One
grandfather has 63 grandchildren and the other has 64 and all of them married
in the temple. Both of them served full-time missions with their wives after
they retired. One worked 20 years and the other worked 22 in the Mesa Temple
and the Salt Lake Temple. With that background here they are telling me,
"Where we are we can't progress until you, on the path you are on,
continue on that path and receive the Patriarchal Priesthood, and the sealing
power of Elijah and seal us into your family." I said, "What, say
what?" They told me this three times that night, "You need to go on
your path, and stay on it, and obtain the Patriarchal Priesthood and the
sealing power of Elijah and seal us into your family or we can't
progress." I went through two months of searching everything trying to
figure out what they are talking about. They have done everything that I hoped
to do, they covered all their bases, they have done everything by the numbers. I
am wondering what they missed, or what they say they have missed out on.
The next Sunday, after they visited
me, I got up to teach the High Priests and Seventies and I prepared
whatever the lesson was, and when I opened my mouth the Spirit had me give a
whole lesson on the Patriarchal Priesthood and none of it I had ever heard
before. I was just like a spectator in the room listening to the same lecture
on Patriarchal Priesthood. I couldn't believe it. On the Aaronic level men hold
the Priesthood because they need to learn how to serve others. Women don't need
the Priesthood because they already serve others, they already know how so they
don't need to learn it. On the Melchizedek level the women share in the
Priesthood with their husbands, but they don't need their husband there to do
it. They can anoint with oil, they can bless, they did it back in Joseph Smith's
time, and in Brigham Young's time. On the Patriarchal level they hold the
priesthood independent of their husband and some can have a higher Priesthood
than their husband has but it is all independent. I am saying all this and
saying where is all this coming from? I have never heard this, never saw it,
don't even have a whisp of it. I get the whole thing out and afterwards, out of
32 men in the class, at least 20 come up and say we have never heard anything
about this. Where did you get this? I said, "I have no idea." That
was Sunday and on Wednesday we had stake temple night. Out of those 32 men 30
went to the temple but I did not go. I got two phone calls at 11:00 that night.
The Bishop and the first councilor both called and said, "Boy, you wouldn't
believe what happened to us tonight. We went to the temple and had an hour set
aside for a question and answer time to talk about things you can't talk about
except in the temple. When we got there and the temple President came in and
said, "We have a letter from the First Presidency saying that we cannot
give these question and answer periods anymore. We are only supposed to give
you a lecture on the importance of coming to the Temple." He introduces
his first councilor who is going to give us the lecture and then the President
left. When the first councilor opened his mouth, out comes every word that you (David)
said on the Patriarchal Priesthood but the first councilor also had all the
footnotes, he had every place that you go to get that information. Right after
the lecture the bishop made an appointment with him for you and I to go to his
house. He is a stake patriarch and he is the first councilor in the River
Jordan temple. Saturday at 8:00 a.m. he will show us where he got all this. John
Taylor, Brigham Young Joseph Smith, Wilford Woodruff were all quoted. The two
brethren from his ward stated that this was a second witness.
It was a Sunday or two after that that I was told to resign from my job
as teacher of the High Priests and Seventies and concentrate on my family. I
told the High Priest group leader that I wanted to be released and he asked
why. I told him that I was supposed to concentrate on my family. When I got
home that day the stake president calls me and comes rushing over to my house. He
had been the president for two months. Prior to that time he had served in the
presidency for eight years. He went through a lot of scriptures but his bottom
line was; "When I was in seminary my seminary teacher showed me these
scriptures and told me that I need to develop my own personal relationship
with· the Lord, that I need to have communion with the Church of the
First-Born, and the resurrected, and righteous, and just saints. I need to have
ministering angels.” He listed them all. Then he continued by saying, “I went
on a full-time mission, I got married in the temple and I was put right in the
bishopric, then I was made the next bishop. Then I went right into the stake
presidency and I was the first councilor for eleven years and now I am the
stake president. This has not happened to me and it can't be happening to you. I
have to excommunicate you because I don't want anybody following you, I don't
want anybody coming over and talking with you and if I don't excommunicate you
then everybody will." That was the most devastating thing I have heard
about in my life. Number one I can tell you that if you say that membership in
the church is more important to you than a personal relationship with the Lord,
I can tell you what you are going to end up losing because that is one of the
first things that will go. I went through a week and a half of horror. I plead
with the Lord, I prayed, I would do anything. My whole goal up until that time
was to become wealthy in construction and then teach seminary for a $1.00/yr
wherever they wanted me to. That is all I actually wanted to do and I only had
a half of a year of college to finish. I just wanted to teach for a dollar a
year and then take my students during the summer and put them in my
construction crew and teach them how to work and how to be a son or daughter of God all the time you are
working and enjoy it.
Question: So they went ahead with
the action?
Answer: Yes.
The stake president said, "I don't even want you at the trial, it
won't make any difference, I'm going to excommunicate you anyway."
Question: Did they give you any
reasons?
Answer: The stake president
said, " I'm just going to put down that you have departed from the
doctrine of Christ."
I actually went over and drove around the church house, at least five
times, when the trial was going on because I wanted to go. I actually had angels that kept me from
going but I wanted to go anyway just so I could say I listened to it and see
how it was. I had three high council men come over to my house afterwards and
say, "Every time he would ask for a vote we would all vote “no”, we saw no
reason to excommunicate you. Then he finally read a letter from one of the
Seventies. It was a Poulson, or something like that. But he read a letter from a General Authority
and in the letter it said something about following the advice of your
Priesthood leaders. I don't know the wording of it. I kinda had their versions
so I won't get into because I wasn't sure but in it it said that if ·your
Priesthood leader chooses the way to go you have to sustain him. After the
third 'no', and the stake president was the only one to vote to excommunicate
me, he read this letter from one of the General Authorities and then said,
"I as your stake president have chosen to excommunicate him so therefore
to sustain me you all have to vote yes." Then we all voted yes because we
wanted to obey our Priesthood leader. I said, "That's fine it doesn't
bother me a bit." The reason it didn't bother me was because the Lord, in
one of the nights I was in this anguish, came and said, "David, what man
gives you man can take away. Let them. Now what I'm going to give you no man
can take away. Now which one is it you want? What is that you want to hang on
to? I’ll take whatever you going to give me." That was the bottom line and
so from then on it didn't bother me. Since then, I'll just run through the next
year or two, I was baptized by John the Baptist into the Church of Christ. Not
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day saints but into what they call the
Church of Christ, that level. Then I
was baptized into the Church of Enoch and then I was baptized into the Church
of the Firstborn.
Question: I don't understand what
the Church of Christ is.
Answer: It is part of the
Kingdom of God.
Question: You can't go directly
from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day saints to the Church of the
Firstborn. Is that what you are saying?
Answer: I can't even envision
how that would happen. You have seven levels; the Book of Revelations is
primarily for just these people in the last-days. The elect people in the
last-days can read the Book of Revelations and it is just for them. When John
keeps saying 'let him who hath an ear, hear' what he is saying is if you can
hear what I am saying this is just for you. It isn't for anyone else. It hasn't
been for anyone else in the entire ages until right now. There is seven
churches in there that they talk about; Ephesus, Smyrna, Thyatira (see
Revelation 1:11). All they represent is the seven levels you personally have to
go through getting into the presence of God. There is the Church of the setting
in Order; that is the first one. The church of the Restoration, the Church of
Christ, the Church of Noah, the Church of Abraham, the Church of Enoch, and then
the Church of the Firstborn.
Question: They are not called
that in the Book of Revelations?
Answer: No, but the Spirit will
teach you what it is all about. John has written it in such a way that nobody
by their reasoning power can figure out what he is talking about. As you
progress through those levels, basically what it means is, you have to prepare
your body for the I AM spirit in you to now fill that temple with the Spirit of
God - which it is. When that spirit, the I AM of you, receives its glory it
will burn the carnal body up because the carnal body hasn't been prepared yet. You
have to prepare your body so that every physical cell in your body matches the
spiritual cell of your spirit body. When the spirit is in control and every
cell of the spirit of you is in control of your physical body. It will go
through that seven-year process of replacing every cell to match perfectly, DNA
and everything, with that spirit body. Then, and only then, will that body be
able to withstand the Glory of God. The Second Coming of the Lord is just
talking about the spirit of you coming forth and taking over.
Question: In order to do this you
have to be baptized into the Church of Christ?
Answer: That is just one of the
levels. It isn't that you have to be baptized in it, it's that the Church of
the Setting in order means the physical part of you and your mental mind has to
let the Spirit start setting yourself in order. Then you have to restore all
things. You have to restore everything so that the spirit has all the power.
Then the Christ level of Church means that the I AM part of you is now taking
over everything. Not just beating your heart, which it already does, the spirit
part of you controls beating your heart, and your eyes blinking. If you had to
think about it and do it yourself your mind would wander and your heart would
stop. You have to obtain a faith in Christ enough that you say, 'I know you're
beating my heart' so I know that you can control the rest of my life. You can
control what I eat, when I sleep, what I think, where I go and what I do. I'll
turn my life over to you and let you control it. That's· putting faith in
Christ. You believe it will take care of you. Then God feeds you, God clothes
you, and God takes care of you. Now you're putting yourself into His hands. As
that spirit now renews your body and replaces those cells (pause)
I'll go to the Sacrament level. On the Aaronic level the sacrament is
bread and water. On the Melchizedek level the sacrament is red wine and
unleavened bread. On the Patriarchal level the sacrament is everything you eat
becomes your flesh; It becomes the flesh of the I AM spirit part of you which
is the same as the spirit I AM part that's in Jesus. The part of Jesus that's
the Christ is the I AM part that’s in Him so therefore the I AM part that's in
you can become the same in Christ. As the spirit takes over and you eat
something you sanctify it because it becomes your flesh. That's taking upon you
His name you're becoming that Christ. As you eat you sanctify it and it becomes
your flesh, you drink and sanctify it and it becomes the blood in you. Have you
been washed by the blood of the Lamb means let the blood in you, as you drink
this it becomes your blood, let that blood cleanse and as the spirit casts out
of each cell that which is unclean - it can be preservatives or whatever is in
there - but as it cleanses every cell it puts it in the blood and the blood is
what’s washing you clean. As that blood washes you clean and as what you eat
keeps replacing your body you become a body that matches perfectly the spiritual
body that's already in there. Then you'll be able to withstand Jesus's presence
or the Father's presence.
Question: You had this vision
where Jesus came to take you before you had this?
Answer:The Holy Ghost can cover
you and do all that. They can take you to the city of Enoch to baptize you in
the Temple there and they just clothe you in the Holy Ghost and take you there,
that's all that amounts to. It's like a spiritual person stands right behind
but you're enveloped in their aura so then as you go through it can't bother
you.What does Nephi say; ‘the Holy Ghost will tell you all things whatsoever
you should do.' The Holy Ghost, all it means is that it is complete. A complete
whole, w-h-o-l-e. As your spirit becomes whole and in charge of the whole body
it’s a Holy Spirit - it's complete and that's all they're talking about. Now
the Holy Ghost out there is anyone of the sanctified, any of the Church of the
Firstborn, any righteous and just person who hasn't been resurrected yet, or
who hasn't even come down and got their body yet can officiate in the office of
the Holy Ghost. In the temple when the Father says, "Jehovah go down and
tell the man Adam," Jehovah turns and says, "Peter, James, and John
go down and tell the man Adam." Jehovah is in the office of the Son (Father,
Son) and Peter, James and John have just been assigned, in the office of the
Holy Ghost, to go tell Adam something but it could be your grandfather, it
could be your great-grandson who hasn't even been born yet, these could be ones
assigned to you and when Jehovah turns and he tells someone (shall I tell them
who?), Joseph Smith and Joseph Smith assigns the one that is assigned to you,
your guardian angel, that guardian angel can come and testify to something you're
reading, or something you're praying about. He's coming in the office of the Holy
Ghost (to specifically???) but he does not add anything to the words or He
doesn't take anything away. Whatever the Father says, and whatever the Son
says, and whatever Joseph says that is exactly what you end up getting. It is
the words of Christ that you're hearing.
Question: What you are telling me
is that the endowment we are watching is personal.
Answer: There you go.
If you take everything personal, if you say the earth itself has to go
under a big cleansing change now to get ready for the coming of the Lord,
they're not talking about the earth they're talking about your body. Get it
ready. Get it cleansed. It's going to have to have earthquakes, it's going to
have to have tornadoes in it to get out all the parts. All the earth is is a
symbol representing what has to happen to your body. When they say, "I
have a mansion in heaven" the mansion in heaven is your body. Where is
your spirit going to dwell and live through all eternity? In your body!! So
renew it. Your whole purpose in coming here was to get a body. Don't leave it
in the grave and go up there and say now what am I going to do? They're saying
you got to go resurrect your body in the grave. How do I do that? It is a lot harder
now then it was while you were still in it.
You let the physical part of you stay in control. When it said 'I'm
hungry,' what did you do? You ate. Who does that give power to? The physical
part. Who was in control? The physical part. Now you've got to go get it back.
You've got to go raise it up. You're not going to get a mansion in heaven unless
you take it with you there. This is the time to prepare to meet God.That is
basically it.
Question: When I am talking
personal I am talking Patriarchal, right?
Answer: Right. Let’s go
Patriarchal. When Ezra Taft Benson comes into any of your homes he knows who
presides when he gets there. The father of whatever the family is presides. Doesn't
even matter if they're Mormon or not, they don't even have to be Mormon, but
they still preside because the father has the first level of the Patriarchal
Priesthood already sealed on him by God before he even comes here. That much
Patriarchal Priesthood is greater than the highest level in the Church. So even
the President, Prophet, Seer and Revelator of the church, when he enters any
home, he immediately goes under the direction of the Father because that's a
greater Priesthood. You take that Priesthood, which came from God, and that's
the Priesthood that God has to continue giving you. Remember Abraham said,
"Melchizedek ordained me to become a King and a Priest" but the Lord
came and put His hands on my head and sealed me a King and a Priest after I was
willing to sacrifice Isaac. Then, and only then, did he say now I have a
Priesthood.
Question: We are introduced to
the Patriarchal order?
Answer: Right.
What the sealed portion of the gold plates are are ramblings about the
Patriarchal order. There's pieces of that that will pertain just to you. When
you get to the Patriarchal level and find someone on the other side of the veil
who takes you under their wing, you might say, then they'll instruct you and
slowly guide you so that you slowly become aware of what you need to do on the
Partriarchal level. The women have an independent - they have to get their
revelation and their inspiration on what their path is and what they need to do
because they receive Priesthood too. It hasn't that the men had the Priesthood
and the women had nothing it's that the women didn't need to have it because
they didn't have the natural man instincts of 'me first’. All my kids would
know that if they came up to me and asked for a bite off of my plate I never
stuck in their mouth the one I was saving for my last bite. Do you know what I
mean? There is the best part of any steak. The wife will always give that to any
kid. They'll even give the best steak to their husband, won't they? Naturally,
that's because they already know how to serve others. Men have to learn that so
they're given the Priesthood in order to put a harness on them and make them do
it. Make them go home teaching, make them pass out fast offerings. They've got
it all twisted around here they say, 'gee, look at me I've got power. I'm up
here passing the sacrament. All it is, is that this is the only way we can get
you to learn to do what the women already know. They don't need it, they don't
have to do· it. All you get from that point on isfurther instructions pertaining
to what you need to do.
When a husband teaches his wife what the Lord or your Patriarchal father
tells you to teach her. The Lord knows what your wife needs to learn, or what
she needs to know about you. That you do care and you do appreciate her. The
Lord will have you tell, her that. When you get home from work, if you have
four kids, you go hug all four kids. Some of them are thinking 'oh geez, here's
dad again. He's just going to hug me and I don't need a hug right now'. But
there's one of them that's going to say, "Oh dad, hug me, little longer,
longer. I needed it all day." The Spirit is going to say, "Go take
that one and go sit down and spend a whole hour." The others don't care so it doesn't matter
right now. When their time comes, that they're weepy or something has happened
during that day, and you come home that's when the Spirit says take them aside and
spend some time. When you do it by revelation you fill all their needs. You
fill all of their needs. You don't need Primary; All the church function is for
is we are going to teach these fathers, wives, and children what the fathers
aren't teaching them and should've been. That's all it amounts to. Every time
Moses, or anybody, says the Lord wants a nation of Priests, Holy Priests,
that's what he's talking about. We want the fathers to get their own
revelation, get their own instructions and teach their own. When they finally
come up to their wife's level, which is Patriarchal, then the wife can get
hers. But if the Lord says, "Look, you guys have been together for 20
years now. I'm going to go ahead and start giving your wife all this
Patriarchal Priesthood authority and she's going to be in charge of this and this
and you just keep coming. What would most men think right then? She's got more
authority than I do. What would most men do? Quit, that's right. So the Lord
says let's just wait until he actually gets there. I met Moroni, the brother of
Jared, seven different Jaredites, about six or so Nephites, including Moroni,
two of the three Nephites that are translated. All of them gave me different
things, different things to do with the Patriarchal Priesthood and what I need
to do just for my family. Joseph Smith and Joseph Smith Sr. came and-that was
the first time I actually saw the Lord - in person and not just in a vision. They
ordained me to what they called a probationary Patriarchal Priesthood and then
sealed me as a son to Joseph Smith Sr. I was puzzled then as to why Joseph
Smith Sr but since then I've found in the 'Teachings of the Prophet Joseph
Smith', on page 38{I think), it's where Joseph Smith gives his father a
patriarchal blessing. In that he actually gives him the keys to stand as Adam
on the earth in the last-days. He is Adam to this last dispensation. He will be
able to sit at AdamOndi-Ahman with of all these Patriarchal sons adopted to
him. Everyone on the Patriarchal level will be adopted to him and he'll sit at
Adam-Ondi-Ahman and then turn them all over to the (???) original Adam. Anyway,
at the time, all I knew was that I was assigned, as a son, to Joseph Smith Sr..
Then he gave me by revelation every step I had to do. Basically, everything it
was was how to get me prepared so that I could meet the Lord himself. In a
sense, he was functioning on the Holy· Ghost level to me and I received a lot
of instructions through him and other people on the Holy Ghost level. I
received instructions from King David, the King David of Israel. He was one of
my guardian angels. David Whitmer, the Book of Mormon witness. Brigham Young,
John Taylor, two of the translated Nephites, the brother of Jared, and Moroni.
All these weren't all on that same level. There was a period of time from when
I was assigned to him, and the impression I had was I was sealed to him
forever. If you talk to anybody that knows Patriarchal stuff they say your
Patriarchal father is your father forever but when he released me and
introduced me to the Lord he said, “I'm releasing my sealing to you and now you
will be sealed to the Lord. Then I was sealed as a son to Jesus himself.
From that moment on I didn't have anymore visitations on the Holy Ghost level.
There rarely would be a day that He didn't come but when he didn't he'd assign
someone else to and someone else could that was on His level who is already a
joint heir with Him. That would be when I met Abraham, and some of the guys
that are on that level. How long was I at that level? 8 months. In that eight
months all He was trying to find out was if He said jump would I jump or would
I discuss it and try to find out why I'm jumping? He was trying to get me to a
point when I would stop saying why. I want to know why - kind of thing. The
nearest thing I can describe it to is if you take a broken horse, like a
cutting horse, when you get that cutting horse to where you can just hang onto
the saddle horn and not do anything except pick out which calf it is the horse
is not going to say 'why is it that calf?', 'why not that one with the limp?'. The
horse doesn't do any of that though we all do naturally. You point to the calf
and then hang onto the saddle horn and the horse does everything. That's what
He wants. That's when He says a broken heart and a contrite spirit. He's saying
broken so that I can just hold onto the saddle horn and you do whatever I
already pointed you to. Don’t keep saying 'Well how long do we have to do
this?”, “Can I quit after ten jumps?”, “Can I jump back and forth ten times and
then quit?” That horse doesn't ask.
He'd do it for four hours if you didn't pick up the reins again, wouldn't he?
{Yes} OK, that's what He's trying to get,
When He gets you to that point. then He says I'm going to introduce you
to my Father. Which He did. I'd have to say, up until now, that is the best thing
that ever happened to me. It was like I am going to go meet Him{the Father)
Jesus is going to introduce me and now and then when I really have a special
reason maybe I'll get into another meeting where I can see Him (Father) again.
Jesus takes me up and says, “Father here he is This is my son David in whom I'm
well pleased. He's yours.” Then Jesus takes my hand and puts my hand in His Father's
hand and then He leaves. I'm going, “whoa, wait a minute here now, what's the
deal?” The Father seals me to the Father as a literal son.
Question: The Father seals you to
the Father? Who is the first Father?
Answer: It is Jesus's Father. He
actually sealed me to Himself first and then He introduced me to my Father.
Question: The second Father is
your spiritual Father?
Answer: Right. You come out of
your spiritual Mother as a set of twins a male and a female. The male happens
to come out first but it doesn't have anything to do with who is better than
the other.
Question: Were we created
spiritually by sexual intercourse?
Answer: That is true. You are
born as a male and a female at the same time. It just happens that the male
comes out first and he holds the hand of the female. When you come out and now
you are twins. A brother and a sister as full twins.
He introduced me to my Father and told me what His name was. Theoretically,
there are no names on the other side of the veil you're only known by your
title of whatever office you're working in right now. So if they call someone
Samuel that means whatever the office of Samuel is that's what they're doing
right now. Adam is a title. Even though they had the title of Adam when they came
down here each one of them had separate office's in the council or the quorum
of the Adam's. Technically there were 144,000 of them. Jesus's Father is the
spokesman for the 144,000 fathers. They don't say fathers and mothers because
when you say father you're talking about both your Father and Mother. The title
father includes both.
Question: The title father means
parent?
Answer: Right.
Elohim is technically feminine. That's because most of the Elohim that
visits and talks to people like Abraham if it's in a feminine form he says
Elohim which is the feminine form of it. Or he will say Father if they're both
there. You can meet just the Father without the Mother but if you meet the
Mother it is the same thing as if your're meeting them both. They're both one.
Anyway, He introduced me to my Father who told me His name was Seth. From then on
all I've dealt with is Seth. I can get daily instructions from Him. I can ask
for something specific and get that from Him or He'll just come daily and see
how I'm doing and what's happening and tell me here's what you need to work on
and things like that. I rarely get anymore visitors on any of the other levels
but I can have a visitor of any one of the 144,000 fathers and it's the same as
if Seth himself came. Jesus's Father is the spokesman for that group but
they're all exactly the same. Whichever one He assigns to do something it's the
same as if He were doing it. Jesus is the spokesman on this next level, or
generation. All those that become joint heirs with Him (and Jesus says,
"My sheep hear my voice, my sheep will follow me, my sheep are numbered,
and my Father hath promised that I'll not lose one.") What Jesus is
talking about is the 144,000 that are going to be on His level.
There are multiple mortalities. If they came down and rode around on
their motorcycle and didn't do what they were supposed to they might have to do
it again. I don't want to open up a whole can of worms on that either.
You have to have a real good reason to do anything but everything is done
for a good reason. Jesus's sheep He’s looking for are the 144,000 which means
the first born spiritual son of each Father. We can play all kinds of numbers
games. I'll go with you through a numbers game. You take Jesus's father who He
says, "This is my·Father. I have done nothing but what I've seen my Father
do and I have said nothing but what I've heard my Father say." There are 144,000 of them on that
level. Jesus is now the spokesman for 144,000, which happens to be the first
born son of each one of the fathers. Each of the fathers had 144,000 sons. Why
is He interested in finding His firstborn? So that He can get His Firstborn
busy finding the rest of them. Why is He looking for the first born, what is
the Church of the Firstborn? Every birth has two, a male and a female. Which is
the male? The first born. That's what they're talking about. Ephraim wasn’t the
first born, Jacob wasn't the first born, Isaac wasn't the first born, you can
go on and on. Abraham wasn't the first born, Heron was older than him. Nobody
was the first born but how come they're all in the Church of the Firstborn?
Because they were born to their spiritual Father first, before their sister
was, is basically all it means. If I don't do what I'm supposed to as my
Father's firstborn He can take any one of the other 144,000 of His sons and
seal him into the same position. He doesn't take any of my free agency away
because I can say, "no, I am not interested."
Here is the one mighty and strong; Everybody is looking for one mighty
and strong. Any one of the 144,000 Fathers are one mighty and strong. Any one
of their sons are one mighty and strong. Anyone that does and uses any of the
power that they have is the one mighty and strong. Now if anyone claims to be
the one mighty and strong, all I can tell you is, he isn't. If he was the one
mighty and strong he would never say it. If he says it this is what he is
saying to all the rest on his level, "I'm better than you, and I'm higher
than you." That's really what he's doing so he would never do that because
he knows that he is only one of 144,000. Therefore, they can say are you one
mighty and strong? and he won't say. If he does say it, it means that somewhere
he got a revelation that says you can be one of the one mighty and strong. In
other words, we are going to bring you up to this level but before he gets
there he starts claiming it. He starts saying, "I jumped to a conclusion
on what someone said way back here and that's why I know I'm the one mighty and
strong." All that means is "I don't understand what I am
saying." Everyone who does, knows he doesn't, because he didn't finish his
ordination, he didn't go on. Therefore he's out claiming all this but he isn't.
Question: Does that happen?
Answer: Yes, there are at least
three in the valley, right now; all claiming it. They've all short circuited
their own progress.
Question: If someone wanted to
get on the straight and narrow and get started, how would you advise them?
Answer: Just do what God tells
you to.
Question: With the strife that's
going on in the Church right now{incomplete)
Answer: Sstay in until God
tells you to leave. What I'm trying to say is don't do anything until God talks
to you personally and if God is not talking to you personally then do whatever
it takes to get him to.
I can already tell you He already can talk to you. It’s that you're not
in tune yet or you're not ready yet. Get ready. Say, "What do I need to
do? Take away from me everything that's keeping me from you. That's a real
dangerous{???) one to write. I guarantee He'll do that. In other words, what is
there about me that's keeping me from coming to you? He'll say are you willing to give it up then? Most of them
it is a picture of a guy hanging on a cliff, hanging onto this branch, and he’s
saying Lord save me. I don't know what's down there but it is a swirling mist
and I don't want to fall into it so please save me. The Lord says, "OK, I’ll
save you, let go." After a few years of pleading this is how he changes
his plea, "Lord, please save me and this branch." The Lord says,
"I can't save the branch, just let go." Then he says, "Please
save me and the branch and get me up there we're safe and then I’ll let go of
whatever it is, the church, my job, my house, my wife."
When I started this I had a good job in the church, I had a good wife,
good children, good income, good house, good everything and I lost every bit of
it. Not one thing did I end up with. I ended up giving it all to the Lord. Now,
He has given me back, my wife followed me to Arizona. I said, "What do I
do now? God said, "Go get a
carpenter job and feed them." Why do I have to feed them I gave them to
you, they're yours. God said, "Yes, but you said you would feed whoever I
told you to feed, you would clothe anybody I told you to, any of my children."
I said, "Yes." God said, "Here are my children. Feed them."
I said, "I'll feed any of yours but these were mine, I gave them up."
He says, "I know you did and now they are mine. Now I am telling you to
feed them." I went and got a carpenter job and started feeding them. Then
we moved back to Utah and then I moved up to Washington and they stayed here.
As soon as they found out where I was here they came again. He says, "Go
get a carpenter job and feed them." I said, "Are they going to follow
me everywhere?" God said, "That is their choice but if they choose
to, you get to feed them. So get feeding them." I said, "You want me
to go get a job?" God said, "What's wrong with being a
carpenter?" Nothing.
Another time, I thought I was being sanctified and I had this big sliver
go through my thumb. How can that happen to me? I tried and tried to pull it
out but it had broken off and wedged back against the bone. I had pulled it with
pliers until I'd nearly pass out. Well, I had better go to the doctor. I am sitting
in the doctor's and they gave ma a shot and
then he slices it open and pulls this big thing out and then he leaves.
I am thinking how could this happen to me? I mean me of all people. I see this
hand come through the veil and it has this big (nail) mark in it. God said,
"Look what happened to me." I said, "Oh well, mines not that
big." God says, "You wanted to know how that could happen, just be
more careful." I said, "You had slivers when you were a carpenter?”
And He said, "Yes," God said, "Stop whining about it, see
mine?" He (God) brings me up short all the time.
I literally had to go through a lot of things to get rid of greed, get
rid of pride, and get rid of ego (my wife helped me with this also).
Question: Was any more said about
when the First Presidency wouldn't let you read David Whitmer's blessing?
(first cousin fifth removed his ·grandfather is my fifth great grandfather.
Answer: He came to me because I
was the only one in the whole family (he said) that was on the path and willing
to continue on the path. He said what was in the blessing was that he, David
Whitmer, had been given all of the keys for the gathering of Israel in Jackson
county for the building up of the temple. As the Lamanites came with all their
materials to build the temple he would just coordinate things with Ephraim and
any whites that wanted to help. He wasn't in charge. No one has the authority
to tell the Lamanites what it is they'll be doing and when and trying to
organize them. He is to coordinate anyone else's efforts with what the
Lamanites were doing. He was given all the keys that's why he was the president
of the stake of the New Zion in Jackson county. When the church left Jackson
county he just moved across the river and stayed right there until he died
because he was waiting for people to come back. His mission didn't have to do
with anything but the New Jerusalem.
Question: What about the
spiritual partner that was created
at the same time.
Answer: I’ve seen where even a guy in the stake presidency runs into
his spiritual sister twin. He had such a marvelous spiritual experience just
being in her presence that he just knew he had to some way be sealed to her. He
ends up having an affair with her and ends up getting excommunicated and he
can't understand why. I said because you were having an affair with your
spiritual sister, your twin, and it wasn't meant to have an affair you just
happened to run into her. She is sealed to someone else. It doesn't mean that
when you get next to them you won't know. You will know that here is someone
special. It might not be your exact twin sister, it might be the your next
brother and sister. But it might be the same spiritual Father and the same
spiritual Mother. You're going to have a real close tie there. You will run into
people that you know is your brother.
Abraham's promise, the church's view is that everyone that is the
literal seed of Abraham is going to be blessed, going to be holy people, and
they are going to benefit the rest of the population. What it really meant was
that anyone of his seed, which could mean you, that finds out who he really is -
that the I AM in him is the key to everything and let's the I AM in him take
over and control over everything. In other words, as he develops into a God he
becomes that it is HE All. He begins to be what Jesus began to be, the Son of
God that He was.
Question: Did you notice that when
it started happening to you?
Answer: Yea, but my father
Joseph, and a lot of them would take me to a scripture and have me read it and
I would say 'No, that's not what that scripture means. Oh, that's what that
scripture means and then it started to dawn on me.
Anyone of his seed who realizes and develops into a complete being like
Jesus did now will bless all the population of the earth and they're the elect.
That’s all it's saying. If you happen to be from someone who wasn't Abraham you
can be adopted in and it's exactly the same as if you were anyway. Even if you run
into someone who is a direct descendent of Joseph Smith, or David Whitmer, or
Parley P. Pratt it isn't any different than if you just get adopted in anyway.
There's no difference. [All it means is in other words if I were a literal
descendent of Joseph smith and now Joseph was now going to pass me onto the
Lord it would be harder.]
Another key is going to women. If you took just 10,000 women in this
valley and said meet the Lord .Jesus Christ and they met Him and they felt the
love that He had for them and He put His arm around each one of them. Every
cell in their body would just be in ecstasy, I guarantee you. And Jesus said,
"Come and I'll seal you mine." These women, out of the 10,000, I
would really be surprised if even one of them said, "Let me go call my
husband and tell him I not be coming back." They're going to go with who
they find that they know can take them all the way to the celestial kingdom. That's
why a lot of women would try to get sealed to Joseph Smith in the temple after
he was dead. After Brigham Young died hundreds went down and got themselves
sealed. The men stopped doing that because they didn't want their wife, after
they were dead, to run and get sealed to somebody else that they knew had a
better chance. Technically, all Joseph has to say is, yes I accept you or. Jesus
to say, yes I accept you. It doesn't do any good to center on your wife and say
I'm going to try to save you with me because if you don't make it and she gets
a chance she's gone anyway because she is already qualifying and you're not.
I've had men say, Heber c. Kimball says I'll do anything you want Lord except I
don't want to lose my wife, Vilate. It's right in his journal. So what does the
first revelation that comes through Joseph say? It says, go tell your son Heber
he is supposed to bring Vilate over and give to you as one of your plural
wives. He tells Heber. Heber goes three days, can't sleep, can't eat, anything.
Vilate saying what's the matter? She goes and prays and an angel tells her that
he's being tested from God and he’s supposed to do it. She goes right out and grabs him and says, “You
do, whatever it is, you do it.” So he marches over to Joseph's house in Nauvoo and
his tracks look just like two skiis because he dragged his feet. When he gets
over there he knocks on the door and Joseph comes and he takes Joseph's hand
and Vilate's and puts them together. Joseph let's go of Vilate and hugs Heber,
tears running down his face. They are hugging for 15, 20 minutes. Then he takes
them in the parlor and seals them as the Holy Spirit of Promise, he seals them
for all eternity.
Now what did he have in order to get her for all eternity? He had to
give her up. But he only had to give her up because she was the only thing he
wouldn't do for the Lord. Just tell the Lord I'll go on a mission for you as
long as it's not cold and let's just see what happens. You'll end up where you
need lots of long johns. My dad did that and he still can't understand why he
was in Winnipeg, Canada, when he asked for someplace warm. It's because the
Lord can't find out if you will serve Him doing what it is you want to do. He
is trying to find out if you will do all things whatsoever He commands you.
All. So if He can find something that you might not do that's the first thing
He will ask you to see if you will do it. As soon as He realizes, that it
doesn't matter what I ask, this guy he is going to do it.
Justification is when you reach a point that the Holy Ghost, the
guardian angel that is in that office for you, will take you before Joseph
Smith and the Lord, put his left hand on you and put his right arm to the
square and say, "I justify everything this man has done." That's all
justification is. When the Holy Ghost will do that that's when he will turn you
over to the Lord. That's when you get your second endowment, that's when you
get your calling and election made sure. That's justification, that's all it is
when he'll justify everything you have done, meaning - The Spirit told me, I
did it. When Nephi killed Laban he was justified. If you say, "No, I won't
kill anyone." You can make the list anything you want that says this is
what won't do. You have a guardian angel writing it down. I can guarantee you
that it is on your list of what to do because that's the only way they can test
you.
Question: What about the earthly
ordinances, Holy of Holies, second anointing, washing of the feet. Baptism is a
requirement to enter the celestial Kingdom, is it a symbolic baptism?
Answer: It is symbolic. What
the baptism of water really means is you need to be washed, and completely
immersed in the love of God. When that's happened to you you come out pure as
you think you are when you come out of the baptism, you've been completely
immersed in water. That just represents the love of God that you have to be
completely immersed in. When you're
immersed in the love of· God you have no anger
or hatred in you. Every cell in your body is filled with the love of
God. That's what has to happen to you that the baptism of water is just a
symbol of. Joseph smith said if you don't get that love in every cell of your
body you might just as well be baptized in bags of sand. You can do that in the
temple too if the people don't get immersed in the love of God.
Now the baptism of fire, and the Holy Ghost, is being baptized with the
Light of Christ. Every cell in your body has to be in the control of the Light
of Christ, or the I AM that's in you shining forth with its glory. When that
happens, the more light you get the less clothes you have to wear. All the
garments represent is the light that you used to have. When you can turn that
light on you don't need the garments anymore. The garments aren't there to
protect you they're just there to remind you that there's something you still
need to get, you need to get clothed in the Light of Christ.
Question: Everything is a symbol,
right?
Answer: The temple is a temple
made by hands representing the Temple of God that's made without hands, which
is your body.
Question: The question I had was
specific to the Holy of Holies, is that a necessary ordinance?
Answer: No, none of the outward
ordinances are, they're just representative of what you have to go do. They're
all the Aaronic level.
When someone doesn't do what God wants them to do, personally, then He
gives them something to do just to keep them busy. If you’re not going to
sanctify everything you eat then let's at least sanctify something so that
you'll think it's sacred, the sacrament. We'll sanctify this little piece of
bread and this little cup of water seeing that you are not going to do it to
everything else you eat. If you are not going to live the one law of loving God,
then let's break it, that's what Moses did, he broke it, ground it up, mixed it
with water and made them all drink it so they would all be taken it upon
themselves, their own curse. Then he comes back with the lessor law which has
ten commandments but the people keep getting worse and worse. The worse the
people become the more rules you end up with. If you go down to the prison and
you are really a bad guy, they will let you know when you wake up, when you go
to sleep, how you dress, when you eat, and everything in your life is
controlled. That is no different than the Jews became when Jesus was in Jerusalem
when he was growing up. They went from 1 to 10, and from 10 to 300,000
commandments when Jesus was born. These commandments told them how to bake
their bread, how to grind their wheat, how to sacrifice animals, how to butcher
animals, how to prepare the meat, how far to walk, who they had to help, who
they didn't have to help, what they had to pay, every seven years they do this,
and every 50 years you have this, and every feast. If your wife was on her
period and she sits on the bed and you sit down on the bed then you had to go
through seven days of purification. On and on, 300,000 commandments. Which
gives you an idea how far you can go if the people say, "We want to know
what to do." He will keep giving them things to do. He even started the
Word of Wisdom by “this is not by way of commandment” yet they wanted it as a
commandment.
Question: Is this what the Church
is doing with us now?
Answer: Exactly.
Question: Is it because we are so
rotten?
Answer: No. It is because the
role of the church changed, I don't know what section it's in, but it's where
it says, "the whole church is now under condemnation" and in that
same scripture it will say something about, "but not the individual".
In other words, the church is under condemnation, it can't save you from now
on, it's no longer even going to get the ordinances that can save you but
individually you can come to Me and come on up. That's all that scripture was
trying to say and from that point on there's nothing in the church that can save you. That was clear back in 1843
or 1844.
Question: Are you talking about
the Manifesto?
Answer: Even polygamy is not
going to save you. Polygamy is not a Celestial law it is Telestial. The
Celestial level of the Patriarchal Order of Marriage or the Plurality of Wives
means that until you blossom in your Patriarchal Priesthood you are viewed by
the Gods as being female, meaning you have: no Priesthood, which female means
you don't even need to have Priesthood. When my wife and I get sealed to become
a King and a Priest, and Queen and Priestess, we get sealed and now we make a
covenant with Jesus. There is no place in the scriptures that I've found yet,
there might be, but whenever they refer to a bridegroom they're always talking
about one person - Jesus. If Jesus is the bridegroom, who are we? We are the
bride. If I'm a bride and my wife is a bride and the two of us covenant with
Jesus and we obey our husband in righteousness. I've never run into a wife in
this valley yet that can actually say her husband is righteous, and everything
he has asked me to do is righteous therefore I obey him. There's some that
don't understand that and they might think they are. The first covenant I make
in the temple is obedience to Him. The first covenant she makes is obedience to
her husband. On a lesser level she assumes that's me. On the Celestial level
it's Christ, He is still the Bridegroom. If she obeys Him and I obey Him what's
Jesus going to do? Bring us closer and closer. You draw near to Me and I draw
near to you. Now as I become one with Him and she becomes one with Him and we
become one with each other, what happens? Now the Holy Spirit of Promise seals
us but only when we get to that point.
Now you can say the Godhead is a triangle pointing down, and you and
your wife and Jesus are the triangle pointing up and as the two becomes one
there is the star of David. The star of David is just for Israel meaning in
God's reality you have become real to Him, you've blossomed into what it is you
are. Same as a mustard seed blossoms into what it is. If you have the faith, as
a grain of mustard seed, you become what you are like it will become like it is
and that's all you have to do. I become that and I become a Star of David
meaning I am one with God therefore I am real to Him and that's Israel. So I've
become Israel. Israel is not a tribe or a group of people it is whoever does
that. That's how they become Israel, Israelites. The Star of David is my
symbol, my wife and I are one with Jesus and we can go on now into the
Patriarchal Order.
Plurality of Wives - How many wives does Jesus end up with when you do
it that way? A bunch. That is the Patriarchal Order of Marriage and Plurality
of Wives. That's God's program.
Let's find out who else has a program out. Satan has a program that goes
like this; if were not going to make this covenant with God then let's, at
least, we'll put the man in the position of the Lord and we'll tell the woman
that you have to obey him. He can have other women but they all have to obey
him. He is their lord and master. As
they all obey him, and all their children obey him, if you've ever known any
polygamy groups how many of the children or wives have any free agency? Any
free agency at all? Dress like they want? Play when they want? See what I'm
saying? They take away all their free agency. In other words, Satan's plan is
I'll save all of you but you have to be sealed to me, and you have to do
everything I tell you, and then I'll save you. Otherwise you'll be cast into
hell fire and damnation. That's his plan. As I am their lord and master, let's
say another guy shows up and says, "I like what you're doing with your
family. What I really like is how you have seven wives and forty kids. I want
the same thing." The new guy can't do it by going to God and finding out
what he is supposed to do with God because the original guy already knows. The
original guy says, "I'll make you my patriarchal son and now you are my
lieutenant. Now I tell you who you can marry, and I tell you what to do with
them. It is still Satan's plan and now he has lieutenants. What happens to the
whole group? This is how it comes from our Father's perspective. If I am in
charge of one of these groups I go to Father and say all of these people are
sealed to me, I claim them all. If you accept me you can have them all. That is
exactly what Satan is going to do at the very last of the Judgment Bar. He is
going to say, "All these are mine. I’ve sealed them all to me. I’m their
father." There is going to be a lot of people there that are going to be
real surprised that they are even in that group. Then Satan will say, "If
you accept me you can have them all." That is Satan’s plan. What does
Jesus say, "They are all yours. This is my Father's glory. I will pass
them on. Develop your own relationship. Find out yourself what you are supposed
to be doing." One has free agency and the other doesn't.
That is the Patriarchal order and the Plurality of Wives. I never ran
into a polygamist yet that even understood it yet they can see it. I like to
talk to a polygamist with at least two of his wives there. You· might be able
to keep a secret with one of the wives, you can bribe her enough that she won't
tell, but you get two of the wives in there and there's no way you’re going to
keep it secret from the whole rest of the group. I'll take the man, step by step,
right down through the process of His intention, as he meets with me, is that I'm
going to teach Bro. Whitmer, that he has to live polygamy or he can't go to the
Celestial kingdom. I ask, "Why are you living polygamy?" Because of
Joseph Smith was and then he quotes D&C 132. Harvey Allred has this 'Leaf
in Review' which is merely all their arguments right in there. There is a lot
of pamphlets that they give out. I haven't run into any new arguments yet but
the argument is that Joseph Smith was commanded unless you live that you're not
going to go to the Celestial Kingdom. Do you know what 'Simon says” means as
compared to 'Father may I?' If the Father initiates it and it comes down
through the Son and to the Holy Ghost and to you, this is 'Simon says'. In
other words, to play the game you have to do everything that 'Simon says' but
unless it's 'Simon says” you can't do it.
In D&C 132 it says Abraham did all things whatsoever he did by
commandment, and by My word, by revelation. (D&C 132:37) And Abraham, and
also Isaac and Jacob did none other thing than that which they were commanded. Therefore,
they sit upon thrones and are Gods, not angels. The key there is you do
everything that 'Simon says• and don't do anything that isn't 'Simon says'. Now,
'Father may I', the best example is D&C 132:1 "Verily, thus saith the
Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as ye have inquired of my hand
to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob had many wives and concubines I'll tell you." That is not
'Simon says”. Inasmuch as you were asking, inasmuch as you were trying to find
out. Why was he trying to find out? Why
would the Lord think you would be asking why all these guys get polygamist
wives? That is want he wants. So it isn't 'Simon says”. Even if God tells you
do to something you're still OK if you do it. The polygamists say God told
Josephto live it so therefore I'm living it. Then I say, "Show me your
ark." They'll go, what? Show me your ark. God told Noah to build an ark,
show me yours. I don't have one. Why not? God didn't tell me to build one. I
said, "Then why are you living polygamy? God hasn’t told you to." I’m
not going to buy the argument unless you show me your ark because I can prove
to you that God told Noah to build an ark. Just go out and start it. Put a
couple of 2X4's together and say here it is. Then you have to do everything. Get
your first-born son ready to be sacrificed. You can go on and on with, 'because
God said it to somebody I have to do it. If God tells me, ‘simon says', I do
it. The polygamists get down to I fasted and prayed for a year and a half
before I finally got the Lord to tell me I could do it. That's 'Father May I'
isn't? After a year and a half he told you to go ahead but why did you pray for
a year and a half to live it? I could tell what was in his heart anyway, but
right from his heart comes this, "I wanted to see what it was like to live
with more than one wife and have sex with more than one wife." That's the
bottom line right there. His two wives sat there with their mouths open. They
looked at each other and said that's not what he told us. He was saying that he had to or God would cut
it off. Today they are not married anymore. He and his seven wives are all
divorced because they found out real fast. The women say, "We're out here
doing all he wants us to do in his program." And he isn't using the
Father's program he is using Satan's. It is easy to show that it's Satan's
program.
You show me a father that exercises unrighteous dominion, which is just
merely putting the child in a position where they don't have free agency. How
easy is that to do? You either do this or else. You either go on a mission or
I'm not going to pay for your college. Any, 'this or’, is taking away free agency and when they do that, amen
to the Priesthood of that brother. Take any fourteen year old kid, and it can
be a girl or a guy, and unless they are really brow-beaten and have no concept
of what free agency is, they can recognize in their father, or any other man, whether
they have authority or not. A fourteen-year-old, think about it. You can be
over at church and He can look you right in the eye and he knows you're a
phony. You have exercised unrighteous dominion on your own kids or even on him.
They can see it in your eyes, that you're hollow, you're sound like brass, on
the right(?), you're a whitened sepulcher. They understand this but they don't
know why. They've gone through a seven year cycle of being trained and they are
baptized at eight. Then they go through a seven year cycle of experimenting,
trying things, and seeing how the consequence is. Put your hand on the stove
and it gets burned. How grab that kid by the hand and try to put: it on the
stove, he'll pull back because he knows but yet people say keep hands away from
the stove because they'll get burned, no, that's the best thing for them. If
they get burned once there's no way on earth you can get them to again. Let
them taste the evil whereby they know to prize the good. In other words, let
them, with their free agency, taste. Taste the sweet, taste the bitter, taste
the sweet, taste the bitter. They'll come back but it will be with their free
agency. Now you use Satan's plan, "I am going to save all my kids."
They're all going to have to go to church, they're all going to have to do
this. But you take any fourteen year old and he can recognize authority.
I'll put this to you: If all your kids were wandering around downtown
and Jesus came and sat in the park and started reading, telling them parables,
and your kids got just within' earshot, they would recognize and say, "Here's
someone who isn't a phony." They would recognize the authority so fast,
first the children and then the women. Here's somebody with something that my
husband doesn't have. They recognize it without even knowing what they're
recognizing. They would be right there listening. When you become like Him and
you start telling them they will recognize it too. Men, today, are drowning and
they're trying to save everyone else from drowning and they're doing it by
trying to climb up on top of the others and saying, "I am in charge, I am
the head." There is only two plans, one of them has free agency. Wouldn't
you rather have free agency?
They have a quote in a newspaper that Joseph Smith said, "No one
will ever be excommunicated from this church by differing on doctrine with
me." Brigham Young said the same thing too.
(After we started breaking up the meeting some good questions
were raised. Most of what is left is
harder to hear but I will give you all the pieces, whether or not thy make
sense or are complete.)
As to what I will be willing to do for
you. In other words, until now I've been afraid that if I say, "Lord, if I
turn my life over to you you’re going to have me down in Guatemala preaching on
a corner and my wife and kids will wonder where I'm at." Really that's
what you think about it because as soon
as it becomes 'Simon says', you don't get to choose. You are saying,
"Right now I am choosing." Then we'll test you, here go! And you're
gone. You don't say how long. You become the horse. Now He can use you for what
He wants but until you get your own information (incomplete).
Your danger is finding an answer from something (someone?) else and then
start following someone else. That guy can call you to the gutter real fast.
Satan's helper will say, "the first thing the Lord wants you to do is take
out your check books and whatever your balance is write a check for that amount
and put my name on it. Then I want you to sell your homes and give me that
money and the Lord is going to bless you." That is the first thing that
can happen because he (Satan's helper) has to start a whole group. The guy (the
helper) is going to put himself in place of the Lord, who is resurrected and
already here, but you guys all look at me, ask me, give me your money. That's
the thing that I will never do because I don't want all you guys to be my servants.
When you get your calling and election you have to pay for your own sins. I
would end up in the Celestial Kingdom and say, "I claim all these. They
didn't do what they were supposed to because I stopped their progress but now I
want him to wait on me, and I want him to take care of my yard, see what I
mean? Every time you bring me my plate of food you will slap it down there like
saying, "You turkey, look what you did to me;"
Question: How do we not be
deceived from the angel of light?
Answer: (Big sigh) How to take
the Holy Spirit for your guide and be not deceived? That means that you can be
deceived by the spirit but how can you be deceived. If I have the Patriarchal
Priesthood and I tell my guardian angel, "Go tell his guardian angel that
if he reads this testimony, that it's true." Now you go pray and as you
are asking, "Is this true?" what is your guardian angel going to say?
"Yes." Then you say, "I want to be specific, who told you to
tell me that this is true?" "The father." All patriarchs are the
father, so he: says "the father". Now what do you assume? That his
Heavenly Father told him to say that. That's how easy it is to be deceived. All
he can testify to is truth so if I write something and it is true and I hand it
to you and you read it and ask (if it is true) and I say, "Tell him it's
true." Is he telling the truth? Yes. And if you say, "Who told
you?" and his answer is "The father." Is he telling the truth?
Yes. There are people that can do that. Find out (where the answers are coming
from) when you start getting answers. When you say, "I need to know."
It took me fifteen years to get my first answers and in the last eight
years I've had 10,000 answers. You can't get into as much trouble for not doing
as you can for trying. Even if you're trying you're saying, "If I put my
hand on this stove will it burn me?" Let's say an evil spirit says no. Put
your hand on the stove and jerk it back and say, "Gee, here I trusted you
and you told me it wouldn't. Why did you tell me that?" Eventually you're
going to find out, "Who told you to tell me to put it on the stove?"
Did this come from who? who?, who?, and find out where it originated. You will
find out that Satan is in there. What I use as my key is: "Jesus is the
Christ and the only way to the Father." (answer should be yes) Evil
spirits will admit that Jesus is the Christ but they won't ever say He is the
only way to the Father. Then I would say, "Is the Book of Mormon a second
witness of Christ who is the only way to the Father." (answer should be
yes) Then "Does Joseph Smith hold all the keys to the last
dispensation" (answer should be yes) I get those three answers then I ask
the question again, "lf I put my hand on this stove will it burn me?"
Answer is yes. Ahhhh, it's a little different. It's a different answer of 'yes'
than the other three yeses. I go back and ask the three questions again and
then I ask, "Should I put my hand on the stove?" Yes. Ahah, get thee
hence Satan. I find out that the spirit that was trying to tell me to put my
hand on the stove was the evil spirit-and so I'd say, "Ahah." Whenever
somebody says something I'd say, "Oh, well what's the answer?"
"Yes." "Is Jesus the Christ and the only way to the
Father?" No answer. "Get thee hence, Satan." You have (emphasis)
to learn how to find out where it is coming from.
You can get a lot of tangents, you get off the razor's edge. If you want
to find keys of finding out if things are from your Heavenly Father or not. Your
Heavenly Father is always going to be this nature of answers: You're my son,
I'm well pleased, I forgive all yours sins. When you read from the D&C and
you read any of that stuff you know that it is right from the Father.
Question: Does He ever ask you a
question? You ask a question and he will
through one back.
Answer: Yes. Like, why do you
want to know? or why do you this? Here is the Father's program so you can use
it as a guide to see how but first you have to believe what I am telling you about
it but you can test that. The Father's program is this; My son Keith, if you
plant corn I'll cause it to grow. If you plant weeds I'll cause weeds to grow
but you are going to have to eat whatever one you plant. In other words, you
plant hatred;·you plant love, you plant forgiveness, whatever you plant I'll
cause to grow and you'll end up eating it. That's the only law of God there is.
What you sow, you reap. There is no other law.
Mark E. Peterson and a lot of them say there are a lot of laws. Ellie
Scaron(?) there's only one law and then she says here's a law, and that there's
a law irrevocably decreed in heaven for every blessing. That means a lot of
laws. No, what it means is; whatever you plant that's what you get. That's the
only law there is. 'The Father is going to say, "What it is you want,
plant. I can cause it to grow but whatever it is you have to eat it."
Basically that's all He is going to say. He'll say, "If you do this this
is what you'll get, if you do this this is what you get." But He will never
tell you which one to choose. He wants you to test it and find out. Now Satan
will step in and give you a revelation and his revelations are: You either do
this or I turn you over to the buffetings of Satan.
Now, take those two keys and go read the D&C and find out. Take a
highlighter, a yellow one and a pink one. If you can tell that's coming from
the Father - if it's love, forgiveness, and it deals with the law of the
harvest - do it yellow. When you run onto something saying, "You either do
this-or else." Start doing pink. You can be right in mid-sentence when all
of a sudden it will switch· back.
When Joseph is receiving a revelation in the D&C and the revelation
is coming to Him from the Father, and the Holy Ghost is there saying repeat (?)
and Joseph's mind - here's the scripture, my favorite one, "Be still and
know that I am God.'' Be still means stop thinking, your natural man mind must
stop, it's an enemy to God, has been from the beginning, so stop thinking. In other words, be still and know, know that
what I am telling you is coming from me. Don't get off the razor's edge, one
way or the other, just stay right here, know. Now God only has one time and
that is now so knowing means you are in the now state. So as the revelations
come in and Joseph is thinking "Oh", and starts thinking a tangent, the
Lord stops talking and Satan steps right in. I mean, before you can blink your
eye, and Satan finishes the sentence and now it switches over to "You
either do this or else." As soon as Joseph's mind stops thinking the
Lord's takes over. He doesn't go back and redo what Satan just did, He lets (?)
you go. When I first found this out I said, "I'm going to go through and
straighten all these out. Take out all of Satan's out and put in what was
actually supposed to be because I could see the revelation coming that Joseph
got and I could see right where Joseph had started thinking and how Satan now
puts his little piece in there and then the Lord, then Satan. I was thinking I
am going to edit this and I was into it about two months and I get "Who
told you to do this?" Uhhhhh, I wanted to. I knew that I was in trouble.
"Why did you want to do this?" I wanted all these people out here in
the valley to see where you can get deceived by the Spirit. "How did you
find out?" By the Spirit. "Why don't you let them find out like you
did? So they'll have a testimony of the Spirit instead of a testimony of
you." That's pretty good and I haven't done anything with it since.
Question: When you first started
this day you pointed out to us that there was a gentleman that taught you a
beginning. There has always got to be someone, somewhere along the way that
teaches the beginning.
Answer: Find out if he'll claim
that Jesus is the only way to the Father. Satan claims he's a way to the
Father. If he can get a 99.999% of everybody what does the Father have to do sure
I'll accept you, come on back. You will find that I will never tell you
anything that you
can’t eventually go find out yourself.
If anyone wants help from me I'll help hold them under water until they reach
the point they say, "Lord, save me." Or if they are hanging on the
cliff I'll just grab them and chuck them off, To me there is no love in
prolonging their misery. I'd rather just chuck you over the cliff and you either
say, "Lord, save me, completely." Turn your whole life over to God
because you know you are going to lose it all anyway, rather than help you back
up and say let's get started again because then you end up with crutches and
hobble along.
I had a guy in one of the last meetings ask me, "Where do you think
we're at right now here in the valley?" I said you are all decorating and
repainting your deck chairs on the Titanic. You think you have to get
everything in order but it is all going down and it isn't going to matter what
color it is.
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